So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? Matthew 24 is answering a question by Jewish Disciples who asked about the end of the age and the second coming of Christ and some have assumed that the Rapture is not relevant in that context. out of the way. For more information about this event, we must read Matthew 25:31-46. We are to also not look behind to return evil for their evil that will certainly come out of their mouths as one leaves the churches of the unbelievers. One commentator states that Nowhere does the Olivet Discourse deal with the Rapture. 25 'Ye are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant that God made unto our fathers, saying unto Abraham: And in thy seed shall be blessed all the families of the earth; @ Constantthin: On reading your profile I noticed Proverbs 25:2 "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter" (NASB) God rightfully keeps some things secret from mankind until it is due to reveal them. 35 There will be two women grinding together. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. It is true that when the Lord comes after the Tribulation He will judge the ungodly. After He has defeated the nations of the world who attempted to annihilate Israel, He will judge everyone who survived Armageddon. Thank you! How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. First, I found Matthew 24:28almost verbatim. for out of the abundance of the heart In this passage it is even clearer that Jesus was referring to His second coming because He said the coming of the Son of Man. This means the illustration of the two men in the field or the two women grinding is not about the rapture. Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? New Living Translation That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the "( Matthew 24:38 NRSV, Luke 17:26). ERROR: CREATE MATERIALIZED VIEW WITH DATA cannot be executed from a function, Doubling the cube, field extensions and minimal polynoms. We know it is the Rapture of the Church because we have Pauls epistles that explain it. Is it possible to create a concave light? Right now the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people, but then--whenever then is--the Kingdom of God will come in spectacular fashion to bring about "the end of the age.". (34-35) cannot refer to the rapture as it is commonly taught, which is said to take place before the Second Coming. This will "torment" them. : Right now the kingdom of God is within the hearts of people, but then--whenever then is--the Kingdom of God will come in spectacular fashion to bring about "the end of the age.". Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke17:37). Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. This is because the dead have already risen by Luke 17:37. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. ucla environmental science graduate program; four elements to the doctrinal space superiority construct; woburn police scanner live. This means that both Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are events that will occur after the second coming of Christ. So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. Come quickly, Lord Jesus! When I compared the accounts of the Flood (Luke 17:26-27, Matthew 24:37-39), I noticed Jesus was talking about the same people wicked people who died in the Flood. c. 15. p. 90, 91. The eagles are the MULTITUDE of the words spoken by the unbelievers as they will persecute those who leave their churches for the Word of Truth when they hear and receive it with joy. and the other shall be left. the mouth speaketh. One day many years ago, I prayed earnestly to understand Jesus answer in Luke 17:37, and He answered my prayer using Scripture. Two men walking up a hill,/ One disappears and one's left standing still;/ I wish we'd all been ready. His answer clearly reveals that all who were left would be dead and their bodies would be food for the eagles. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. Two women will be grinding together: the one will be taken and the other left. I have watched eagles circling, rising higher and higher. Can you give me the Bible support for the Secret Rapture? I was less than satisfied with the Matt. Therefore, they are not describing the rapture. Revelation 6:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Isaiah 11:4 _____ Rebuttals 12. (NIV). 37 For as the days of These two signs will occur at the same time and will send an unmistakable message to 144,000 Jewish men who will instantly turn to Jesus Christ. Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. Why is this the case? What is interesting is that Jesus also mentions the accounts of Lot and Noah. . He is speaking to Israel about the signs of the end of the age and His coming. The message is destruction. The Comforter is the Spirit of Truth that shall comfort us as those we leave behind shall persecute us in their unbelief and wrath that we have left their church. Luke 17:34 (NIV). Here is Luke 17:30-33, It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. If so this might help explain the 1.1 million non-combatants killed in the judgment that fell around 70ad and why Revelation refers to the Jews hiding in the rocks of the hills, wishing that they had died in the war. Does two men in the field, one taken and one left refer to the rapture? Mark 3:4, Luke 6:9 & Matthew 10:28. For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. @Charlie I appreciate your research in finding a similar question; I searched it, but originally didn't see the Luke text, although the Matthew records almost the same discussion. It only takes a minute to sign up. What sort of strategies would a medieval military use against a fantasy giant? We have 3 groups of people here. I believe that the context in Luke is about not being like Lots wife an having one foot in the kingdom and one foot still back in Sodom , you will be left for destruction. But he seemed as one that to them, and shut to the door. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. As can be seen the angel in the foreground is depicted with eagles wings. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. 04 Mar 2023 00:06:00 de Lectis Veter. In both passages Jesus is talking about the end of the age which is the 7 years of Great Tribulation immediately before Jesus comes. We must "ARISE" and go away from the company of the "dead"the unbelievers who will hear the revealed Word of Truth and will not believe in it when they do. of Man is revealed. Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. Welcome to the forum. Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account thereof in the Day of Judgment. One will be taken and the other left. One will be taken and the other left. It is my purpose to demonstrate that this is quite unscriptural. I will not talk much with you: **for the prince of this world cometh, Moreover, his kingdom will be without end. "Remember Lot's wife. I dont believe that Luke 17 and Matt 24 are parallel passages. The Lord will not destroy the righteous with the wicked.so we must depart and follow Jesus out. Matthew 24:40-41 communicates the same facts. Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. Remember Lots wife!". When it comes, it will be as obvious as the lightning which flashes and lights up the entire sky. What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. At that height the eagles have perfect vision and can see a mouse on the ground and we too will have perfect vision, we will understand how all the way the Lord has led us. Luke 17:30-37 KJV (30) Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this They will "weary" themselves to get you to speak evil back so that they are justified in their own eyes. Jeremiah 9:23-24. them, Where the body is, there also the vultures will be gathered.. The prince of this world.those who love the preeminence (love to be first) among the churches will have nothing to do with Him as they will come forth to persecute those who will receive His words and exercise their authority over the churches as they will act like Diotrephes did. Why did the disciples have so much trouble recognizing Jesus after his resurrection? will be taken and one will be left. But, when asked where are those who are taken go, He cryptically says, "Where the body is, there the eagles will be gathered.". Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). Who is the one left? Any date. But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! Considering the context starts several verses earlier, nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' not open the mouth to render evil for their evil. Thank you for your response! Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB) Event After the Second Coming of Christ There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. In Luke 17:34 Jesus says, I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. (15) And when the morning arose, then Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. Because this Greek word has been used in a judgment passage of . Luke 17:34 (NASB), I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). When you get a chance, please take the. What was the role of Timothy in the infant church? Who is the one taken? Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. and what I should speak. (48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath (14) And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons If you feel an answer is not 100% Bible based, then leave a comment, and we'll be sure to review it. Matthew 24:40-41 (NASB). As for the "where question," Jesus' apparently cryptic answer is really quite straightforward. 17:37 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU), 37 me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is Here is Matthew 24:37-39. "'" In Luke 17:28-33 what does Jesus mean by "save his life" and "lose his life"? (34) I tell you, in Jesus' Coming Will Be Divisive In Its Effect (Luke 17:34-36) Jesus' Coming Will Be Permanent In Its Fatality (Luke 17:37. They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. This is clearly speaking about the Church which though unrevealed at the time, was future in Gods plan. Not to a rotting carcase but to the living body that rose from the dead and is alive for evermore! Luke 16. At the rapture, of course, believers are taken. But we cannot assume that the Lord is talking about the same people when He spoke of some who are taken and received to Himself while others are left; put away in judgment. Jesus indicated that the people taken will be killed when the disciples asked "taken where?" righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not Treasury of Scripture. John 14:29-31 KJV (29) And now I have told you before it come to One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. The one shall be taken; by the Roman soldiers: and the other shall be left; being, by one providence or another preserved; which is mentioned, to show the distinction God will make in his providence, and to encourage believers to trust in it. When the Lord comes to open up the Scriptures to our hearing ears, there is going to be a major upset among the churches of men who will hear His voice (in the Spirit of Truth) and not believe and agree with what He says as they will seek to defend their denominational interpretationstheir own thoughts and ways. whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. This is the great judgment/wrath at Christ's Second Coming, when God kills His enemies and instructs scavenger-birds to gather and eat their corpses (Revelation 19:17-21). It is clear that the "rapture" is for those to be devoured. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. could be that the taken are the people who were steadfast in their faith in the face of danger, so saving their lives for eternity. for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. Revelation 19:17-18 KJV (17) And I saw an angel standing in the sun; together. Luke 17:34 This is not the sudden catching up (or rapture) of believers as described in 1 Thess 4:13-18 when Christ returns in the air (not to earth), and gathers believers to be with Him. Again, these fowl in Revelation 19 are the multitude of words of the unbelievers who will not believe in the true sayings of God when the Scriptures are opened up by the Lord to our hearing ears. those who are in the country enter her.". Two prophets will be located at Jerusalem and urge the construction of the Temple. 28 "Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot: they were eating and We must follow Jesus in His footsteps and go away from the congregations of unbelievers in this coming time. And verse 37 confirms that as well And they answered and said unto him, Where Lord? It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. That article doesn't deal with Lk 17:34-37. The phrase "the end of the age," of course, comes from Jesus' "Great Commission" found in Matthew 28, specifically verse 20. they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. Donations to this ministry aretax-deductible. This was not an answer given in the previous discussion of this question; I basically agree with your conclusion-there is no other way of interpreting 'eagle' except as a bird of prey, consequently, those 'taken' by the eagles are where eagles go to devour their flesh-certainly no picture of anything that looks like heaven. They will not be able to receive His words and will gnash their teeth in rage towards what they hear. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? Luke 17:34-37 ESV - 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. And he said Jesus says to "flee to the mountains" in Matthew 24. Sadly, this verse has been used to support the secret rapture belief. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and. mocked unto his sons in law. knew nothing until the flood came and swept them all away, so too will This is a picture* of angels that are in the process of transporting from earth newly departed peoples' souls, through the legendary dark tunnel, to the heavenly light in the far distance. They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. An act of judgment. Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. giving in marriage, until the day Noah entered the ark, 39 and they I tell you, in that night there shall be two. Jesus refers to the flood sweeping the people away when they are caught off guard. "And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? So He said to them, replied to them, Where the dead body[e] is, there the vultures will The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. Jesus turned to His Disciples and indicated that they would not live to see the kingdom for He must first suffer many things and be rejected of the nation. Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and with a loud voice he called to all the birds that fly directly overhead, "Come, gather for the great supper of God, to eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, both small and great." Who is being taken in Matthew 24:40-41? The birds come to pluck out their eyes as they eat their carcasses: [Isa 5:25 NKJV] 25 Therefore the anger of the LORD is aroused against His people; He has stretched out His hand against them And stricken them, And the hills trembled. lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city. Luke 17:34-35.But the decision at the Parousia, what a separation it will be!a separation of those who are in the temporal life united in a perfectly common position. treasure bringeth forth evil things. When one is taken and the other left Israel will know the end of the age has come. Is it suspicious or odd to stand by the gate of a GA airport watching the planes? What does the verse mean? I would like to comment on the Lords words in Luke 17:34-37 and Matthew 24:40-41. This is definately an idiom or para-phrased statement!. But Israel will know that the Tribulation; the 70th week of Daniel chapter 9, has come when all over the world people disappear. If you interpret the passage to mean those taken are taken in judgment you have to change the meaning of words. Check out ourBible Answerspage for more information on a variety of topics. the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, the other left. For those who believe that Luke 17:34-36 is not speaking of the rapture but of the judgment after Christ's Second Coming and that those taken are the wicked, I must point out a few things and conclude with a determining factor. Regarding Jesus' arrest, why might the gospels differ so much? For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and The armies that follow them will likewise be slain. Luke 17:33-37 says, "Remember Lot's wife. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. The time of Jacobs trouble (Jeremiah 30:7) will have arrived. We all agree on that point. The eagles will be gathered together as they will speak a multitude of words as they will persecute those that leave them. PO Box 4216 In this respect, if we continue to compare Luke with Matthew, the ones "taken" (Matt 24:40-41, NASB) are similar to those "taken" at the flood of Noah (Matt 24:39, NASB). "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17). If these passages are parallel, then the birds of prey refer to events evident in the heavens that point to judgment on earth. Some understand it to mean that the Son of Man will inevitably appear just as eagles inevitably show up where there is carrion. Rapture Doesnt Luke 17:34-36 support the secret rapture belief? First, if we read the three verses leading up to this text, we find this: As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of man. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather.